05 November, 2007

Unterschiede zwischen direct und indirect by Cameron (ENG)

After all these discussions regarding Indirect vs. Direct, there still remains so much confusion. I have seen a bunch of posts on mASF regarding what direct and indirect are.
Mainly, however, I have seen lots of confusion. Furthermore, I find many guys constantly asking me for clarification as they are still unclear regarding the difference.

My goal with this new article is to explain the difference once and for all with depth and clarity so that everyone can understand and absorb the differences.
So I have Set out to write what should be the mother of all direct articles.

This article will be covered in 3 sections.

A. Behavioral difference between direct and indirect
B. Belief difference between direct and indirect
C. Rejection between direct and indirect

each section will cover that particular aspect of the distinctions.

A. Behavioral differences between direct and indirect.

Advocators of a direct approach are proponents of not hiding their intentions. Simply put, it’s acceptable that a woman knows you are interested in her.

Advocators of indirect try to slide through the backdoor. At first, they make every attempt to NOT show interest in her, then they slowly begin to transition to showing a difference.

You have to discover what is right for you, and how you want to live your life.
Direct is in no way just about the opener. It’s simply regarding the masking or unveiling of your intentions.
Over a year ago, Shark popularized the phrase “I like you and I want to get to know you better.” Then again, he likes to be ballsy and anything less is unacceptable to him.
With such a bold statement, there remains no doubt romantic interest is conveyed to the girl. Is it the only way? Of course not!
You can talk about anything in the world, but if you are conveying interest, you are behaving in a direct manner. I want you to think of James Bond, particularly Sean Connery’s Bond.
James Bond usually did not say the words, “I like you, and I want to get to know you better.” In fact, I don’t recall him saying those words ever, but the question is: Were his intentions clear?

There was never any doubt for even a split second what his intentions were during his conversations with women, and the women damn well knew what he was after.
Most of us know that 93% of communication is nonverbal. A sly smile, a glimmer in the eye, are manifestations of direct-behavior when they convey the man’s intention.
What is the man’s intention? That he is romantically interested in the woman.

Indirect behavioral model is based on hiding your true intentions until a later time where you feel you are now worthy of divulging your intentions. Its essence is: “Hey, look, I am not hitting on you. I am not interested in you. I just want to get an opinion from you. That’s all. For all you know, I work for the Gallop poll company and I am conducting surveys tonight.” Every attempt is made to kill any sexuality so that there is no sexual pulse between you two.

That is the difference between the behavioral models of indirect vs. direct.
Do you hide your intentions or does the woman you are approaching clearly know you are hitting on her despite the subject matter?

Is there an absolute rule? No. There maybe instances where you can’t quite distinguish if the man next to the girl of your interest is her cousin, merely her friend or her boyfriend.
You probably wouldn’t want to be overtly flirtatious when her fiancée is standing right there. The problem arises when guys write community doctrine that you must never show interest in her. For a long time, this was community doctrine, and it’s slowly starting to change.

If you read my posts from a year ago, you could see that I was just starting to experiment with this direct thing. Since then, I have had a chance to hang out with some other interesting guys in the community. Guys like Shark, Steve Piccus, Zan, and Stephane are all guys who prefer to not hide their intentions. While I don’t know if Zan would cold-approach a woman by saying the words “I like you” immediately, I do know that when he talks to a woman, there is absolutely no misunderstanding about his intentions.
She’d never ever think, “Oh, he wants to be just friends. We are going to knit together and play bingo.”

Steve Piccus operate on a whole different dynamic. He has no problems telling a girl what he seeks down to the graphic details. To him, too much time spent chatting about bullshit is just a waste of his time.

Shark assumes that he is the prince. He actually believes that it'd be a travesty for the girl to date someone else instead of him.
(I heard David X is pretty direct, but haven’t met the man.)

In the end, regardless of what any of these guys do, you have to decide how you want to behave in YOUR interactions with women.
Do you want to show or hide your intentions?

B. Belief different between direct and indirect

Direct vs. Indirect is also about the mentality and your mental frame. I have already said this numerous times but it does not hurt to occasionally repeat this statement.

You could talk about anything with the woman, but here is the difference:
The entire sequence of the transaction becomes different from the point of meeting that woman.
Now, we'll take it one step further!

What creates this huge difference?

***********A Direct Mentality is you working under the assumption that you are just as good as the girl, and perhaps even above her! ***********

***********An indirect mentality has you working with the assumption that you are not good enough. She is above you and somehow you must prove that you are worthy. **********

There you have it gentlemen. Once and for all: There lies the difference. Simple, wasn’t it?

You can start the conversation with whatever you want. Let's say you talk about something very ordinary: A movie you just watched the day before!

Your behavior, body language, tonality, emotions, and beliefs should EXUDE that you feel you are just as good as she is. You don't have to say the words, "I am as good as you are." You just show it through non-verbal traits which account for 93% of communication I already mentioned.

Allow me to expand through examples in the following scenarios:

Scenario 1: You meet an average looking girl, (maybe 5-10 pounds overweight, but not fat!) and you feel that you are better looking than she is. You feel that you are a very good looking man, and she is just average looking.

Do you have a problem going up to her and just talking to her in a very normal relaxed manner?

No! Most men would not! I want you to picture a good looking sharp dressed man in a club approaching a very average girl. You see him walk up to her and just introduce himself.
What do you think? You think to yourself that he has so much more value than he does not need to ask an opinion. She is in a league below him. (You probably have all this garbage about “Value” in your head, which I’ll address in a separate article.)

Next situation:

Scenario 2: You meet a very beautiful woman who is stunning!
Suddenly, you are nervous, you start making excuses as to why she may not go out with you, you start feeling the anxiety building. You “Don’t have enough Value”, you are not rich enough, you are not good looking enough and thus, you do not feel you can walk up and start the conversation in the same manner as you did with the last girl.

Why? Because you feel that you are not good enough!

If you were a King or a mythical Prince riding on a white horse, you would not have this anxiety. You are the fucking prince and this beautiful woman is your birth right! She is your birth right.
"There is no one else better for her," would be your line of thinking.

Are you starting to see the picture?

Many of the men giving PU advice have great pointers, but ultimately, many of them subconsciously possess the beliefs of Scenario B mentioned above.
They do not believe that the woman could like them unless they had a script with all sorts of lines written in it. They do not believe that a woman could like them unless they broke her down with one insult after another.
This is a form on insecurity, of course.

Everyone mentions the words "Do not supplicate" in the community.
For some reason, however, supplication has taken a financial meaning. Do not buy her drinks,
do not buy her gifts, do not pay for her dinner, do not give flowers, etc, etc, etc.........

I present to you that constantly trying to impress someone through your words, through machine-gunning one routine at her after another, is a non-fiscal form of supplication!
You are an entertainment monkey hoping to convince her to like you through the little games you learned on an Internet chat board. Think about this.

Here is the advice: “Hey guys, do not supplicate to women, don’t even buy her a cup of coffee, don’t tell her she looks nice, BUT please learn these little routines from anonymous people on the Internet, and repeat them verbatim, repeat other people’s stories, LIVE OTHER PEOPLE’S LIVES so that she may actually like you.”
You gotta be kidding me.

The counterargument is that beautiful women are approached by men all the time, and hence, they are sick of it. Like many of you, this is what I was taught when I first came to the community about 4 years ago. It was all over these ASF Boards at the time. It still is today! (It’s just that there is also an opposing voice today to give you a choice and more options.)

At that time, I bought this argument. It made sense. I was not good at cold-approaching women and this seemed to explain why my approaches were not up to par.

Like most of you, I was told, “You see that pretty girl? You cannot approach her in a normal manner. She has already been hit on by 50 men today. You’ll be the 51st man of the day. Why should she go out with you? Why should she choose you? Why?”

Yes, attractive women are approached all the time.
They are approached all the time...............BY GEEKS and Insecure men!
They are not approached often by cool, relaxed, secure, confident men!
Most of the men approaching do not possess the attributes of a confident man who is comfortable in his own skin, and lives a strong reality.

Looking back at it, I think to myself about what a loser mentality this was: To think that you are just like the other 50 guys who approached her. Hey, you are just the next guy in line. What a pathetic frame that was to have. You are just like the rest of the sheep in the herd. You are no different than the 50 guys before you.

In retrospect, it’s so obvious to see the dismalness of it, but sometimes when you are in the middle of it, it’s hard to step outside and see it with an objective view.
It has taken me 4-5 years to break out of that mentality, and now, I am on a mission to bring the distinction it to others.

You may view these women as being above you because of bad experiences in the past.

However, I want you to unequivocally know and understand that when you stop believing that these women are above you, you will have automatically transitioned to a direct belief! You will not have a choice about it. You can’t complain about it, you can’t go to the police. It will just happen, and there ain’t a damn thing you can do about it. [And that’s a good thing.]

You can call it whatever you want. Call it, “Being the Prize” belief system. The semantics are not as important as the internal belief system. It’s a belief system where you no longer feel that you have to prove yourself before you can ever show your interest in her.

When you see a woman on the street/ supermarket/ coffee shop/ bar/ restaurant/ nightclub, and you BELIEVE That she is not above you, and nor is she any better than you, you will have transformed yourself into the direct frame of mind.
When you truly believe that you are no less than her, it’s powerful. Trust me on this.
When you truly see yourself as an EQUAL, you will no longer feel the need to mask your intentions under veil of conducting surveys.
You don’t give a rat’s ass if she thinks David Bowie is hot and neither do I.
You can approach and talk about anything in the world and communicate to her that you are a sexual being. Harness the sexual energy, don’t kill it.

C. Rejection handling between direct and indirect.

A secondary reason for the indirect mentality being prevalent:
The fragile male Ego that cannot handle rejection.

Proponents of indirect instill that if by going indirect, you cannot possibly be sexually rejected. After all, if a man asked a woman for an opinion and chatted for 5 minutes, how could she possibly be rejecting him? There cannot possibly be a sexual rejection because the man never showed any romantic interest in her.
(In fact, he showed no interest on any level, whatsoever.)
This is true. If you asked her some irrelevant opinion and conducted a CNN type survey. She cannot be sexually rejecting you.

Let’s shift to direct. A man shows interest in a woman!
Even if the man was talking about the movie he watched last weekend, she’d know he was interested. Believe me, she’d know.
His body language, tonality, facial expressions, the look in his eye would scream it out.
Again, remember the James Bond films. While he does not say “I like you,” there is never even a shadow of a doubt that he is interested in the woman. (Interest does not mean neediness by the way.
That’s bullshit written by geeks. Always remember that.)

Thus, how do you deal with rejection if you are showing interest?
First, you must genuinely believe that it is not a reflection on you. What if her pet dog was run over by a car a few hours before you approached her? Maybe she just got fired from her job, or maybe she just got engaged to the man of her dreams! You cannot possibly know all this information. All you can remember is that it’s not a reflection on you. You are you and you have to be comfortable with that. You can try to “Fake it ‘til you make it” scheme, but in the end, you cannot lie to yourself. You must genuinely be comfortable enough with yourself that you do not believe it is a reflection on you.

At the end of the day, you look inside yourself and you find peace. If you stare inside yourself, and you look into an abyss, then you are in a world of hurt. This is when you must run around and get validation from drunk party chicks around closing time of the bar.

I’ll give one last analogy: Imagine if you walked up to Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, or Larry Bird and said, “I think you are a terrible basketball player. You just stink.”
Would they suddenly run around and try to get validation by asking the next guy, “Hey, do you think I am good? I feel rejected as a basketball player.” OR would they chuckle and just move on?

The same principle applies here. I won’t bullshit anyone either: It’s a journey. It’s not easy to obtain such a belief system. It takes work. A few individuals have this mentality when it comes to approaching women. The rest of us have to work at it.

You live in planet of 5 billion people in 200 different countries. You live on this relatively tiny planet in a gigantic galaxy which is part of inexplicably huge universe. Whether a girl is interested in your or not at the moment has no meaning. You are not curing cancer and you are not feeding hungry children. You are talking to one person. If she is not interested in going out with you, it is not that big of a deal. On the same token, if she gives you her number, and repeatedly begs for you to call her, it still isn’t that big of a deal.

Secondly, after all I have written, if you still are concerned about rejection, then I’d point to these things you have between your legs. They are called BALLS. You are a man about it. If she is not interested, she is not interested. Who cares. Move on!



I am not going to indicate a right or wrong in this post. You have to decide what your ultimate goal is. You must decide how you want to live your life. Do you want to restructure your path to one where your goal is living without fear, or are you comfortable being the guy who sneaks under the radar?

Lastly, I realize that anything I write will be scrutinized, because I am a commercial coach after all. You may never take a workshop in your life from anyone, and that’s fine too.
Regardless of what you decide to do, realize the paradigm you’re in, and restructure your path of self-discovery to be aligned with your ideals. Do you want a path where you are learning a skill-set of 121 steps to get a girl, or a path where you make a transformation as a person?

Does a path where you are putting a value on yourself appeal to you? I mean a path where you are not some inferior being who lives in fear, a path and paradigm shift where you continually grow so that you your ideals and beliefs are that of a person whose self-image is strong regardless of what the person next to you says.


For a further case study, get away from community people for a couple of weeks. Don’t just take my word for it. Do what I did: Find a few naturals who are extremely good at what they do and observe them. Don’t quiz them about it, but just watch the process. Believe it or not, there are guys who are so good that they pretty much blow away any community guy I have ever seen, including me obviously.
Watch these guys. They can’t explain what they do, but watch their belief system and see from what frame their actions are driven.

Decide for yourself on what is the right path for you to live your life.


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